RFC Compliant DNS on Mavericks Server?

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RFC Compliant DNS on Mavericks Server?

Paul Cook-6
Has anyone been able to turn Mavericks with Server App into an RFC compliant DNS server, that accepts normal user created zone and config files? And by "normal," I mean the kinds of stuff in RFC 1033, RFC 1034, RFC 1035, and the BIND 9.9 Administrator Reference Manual (ARM), as well as described in the O'Reilly DNS and Bind book.

   http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1033.txt
   http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1034
   http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt
   ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/cur/9.9/doc/arm/

If one can't use normal user created zone and config files, how can this product really be standards compliant? So, I'm assuming there must be a way.

Trying to move a client from a reliable old Apple OS to Mavericks with Server App, and one of the services is DNS. My prior moves involved simple DNS configurations that one could easily create in the GUI. This one is not. So, I'm hoping that someone else has figured out how to use existing zone and configuration files with Mavericks Server app's DNS. With all my attempts so far, touching Apple's GUI overwrites any working manual configuration, every time.

Some of what I've done so far is as follows:

In an effort to figure out what Mavericks does, I did a fresh install of Mavericks and Server app with all updates, then setup a quick and dirty DNS configuration with a single host in it.

First, I note that there is a hidden folder named "private" INSIDE the server.app application at the path "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private" and that it has "etc" and "var" folders inside of it. I'm thinking these are probably template files, for the initial creation and probably aren't actually used otherwise. Might anyone know if that is a valid assumption?

Second, I also note that there is a "named" folder at the path /Library/Server/named has a bunch of the files that would normally be in /private/var and /private/etc in a normal installation. (By normal, I mean the kind of thing one would read in the OReilly DNS & Bind book by Cricket Liu and Paul Albitz.) These appear to be the active files for a BIND DNS server. Would this be a valid assumption?

Both of the above appear to be valid assumptions.

/Library/Server/ does not exist prior to launching server. Prior to launching server, /private/etc lacks the normal "named.conf" and /private/var lacks the normal "named" folder with it's defaults.

On 10.6, /System/Library/ contains:
"org.isc.named.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/named
"com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.

I don't see either of these in Mavericks prior to launching server. This is consistent with other sites having pointed out that with Mavericks, Apple no longer includes the BIND dns server as part of client. And "man named" failing to return a man page is also consistant.

However, an org.isc.named.plist is inside of server App at "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/LaunchDaemons" But it uses launchd to start named at /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/usr/sbin/named which is now burried inside of server app, instead of /usr/sbin/. And I see no com.apple.dnsextd.plist on Mavericks.

And there is an interesting shell script named "10_dns_common.sh in "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/ServerSetup/CommonExtras" This script appears to create the Library/Server/named folder and to then copy (using ditto) the dns files from inside of the "Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders into it.

To further confirm this, I tagged what I thought were the template files in the various "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders with a green tag. I then launched Server App for the first time, and a "/Library/Server/named folder" was created. And inside of it, were some files with green tags. Except for the rndc.key, which is newly created.

After launching server, but still not yet configuring or turning on DNS, /System/Library/ now contains, "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.  But still no "org.isc.named.plist"

Bind seems to be version 9.9.2-P2

Even after turning DNS on, with its stock configuration, I still don't find a copy of""org.isc.named.plist" This is odd. I'm pretty sure it should be in there somewhere. But I just don't see it. Am I missing it, or is it hidden elsewhere?



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Re: RFC Compliant DNS on Mavericks Server?

The Mac OS X Server Mailing List mailing list
Ahhhh, reading through all of this I feel your pain :-)

It appears that /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/Launch* are special folders that are valid locations for launchd to load launchd.plist files. I can't seem to find documentation on this anywhere, though... I'm not sure if you can just pop any old launchd.plist file in here and the system will load it (not recommended, obviously) or if it's just certain 'Apple' services that are authorised to live in here and load. I also can't find where/how launchd knows to look in this location for conf files. Is it simply compiled into 10.9 launchd or is it in a conf file somewhere?

The lack of documentation on this new way of doing things (some stuff in ServerRoot, some stuff in /etc, some stuff in /Library/Server) is a big pain when it comes to tracking down problems. I advise those that feel it would be useful to submit some feedback to [hidden email]. When companies say things like "we cannot respond to every comment or request received, but we do read all feedback" it is certainly true for the above email account. Every time I've emailed feedback I've had a personal reply. I would keep it short and to the point and I'm sure you will be able to engage in some meaningful dialogue with the team that actually write this stuff.

I dream of a day where documentation for all Server.app services is as good as /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private/etc/apache2/ReadMe.txt

Do you have to use Server.app to manage bind or might it be easier/better to use something like macports to install an independent installation that can be managed via the CLI or with something like webmin etc? I imagine that modifying files that Server.app reads and writes is akin to the days of editing config files that Server Admin modified. I remember a workaround to prevent Server Admin overwriting manual changes was to lock the file in question (e.g. /etc/named.conf).

Stuart
 

On 15 Jul 2014, at 02:54, Paul Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone been able to turn Mavericks with Server App into an RFC compliant DNS server, that accepts normal user created zone and config files? And by "normal," I mean the kinds of stuff in RFC 1033, RFC 1034, RFC 1035, and the BIND 9.9 Administrator Reference Manual (ARM), as well as described in the O'Reilly DNS and Bind book.
>
>   http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1033.txt
>   http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1034
>   http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt
>   ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/cur/9.9/doc/arm/
>
> If one can't use normal user created zone and config files, how can this product really be standards compliant? So, I'm assuming there must be a way.
>
> Trying to move a client from a reliable old Apple OS to Mavericks with Server App, and one of the services is DNS. My prior moves involved simple DNS configurations that one could easily create in the GUI. This one is not. So, I'm hoping that someone else has figured out how to use existing zone and configuration files with Mavericks Server app's DNS. With all my attempts so far, touching Apple's GUI overwrites any working manual configuration, every time.
>
> Some of what I've done so far is as follows:
>
> In an effort to figure out what Mavericks does, I did a fresh install of Mavericks and Server app with all updates, then setup a quick and dirty DNS configuration with a single host in it.
>
> First, I note that there is a hidden folder named "private" INSIDE the server.app application at the path "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private" and that it has "etc" and "var" folders inside of it. I'm thinking these are probably template files, for the initial creation and probably aren't actually used otherwise. Might anyone know if that is a valid assumption?
>
> Second, I also note that there is a "named" folder at the path /Library/Server/named has a bunch of the files that would normally be in /private/var and /private/etc in a normal installation. (By normal, I mean the kind of thing one would read in the OReilly DNS & Bind book by Cricket Liu and Paul Albitz.) These appear to be the active files for a BIND DNS server. Would this be a valid assumption?
>
> Both of the above appear to be valid assumptions.
>
> /Library/Server/ does not exist prior to launching server. Prior to launching server, /private/etc lacks the normal "named.conf" and /private/var lacks the normal "named" folder with it's defaults.
>
> On 10.6, /System/Library/ contains:
> "org.isc.named.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/named
> "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.
>
> I don't see either of these in Mavericks prior to launching server. This is consistent with other sites having pointed out that with Mavericks, Apple no longer includes the BIND dns server as part of client. And "man named" failing to return a man page is also consistant.
>
> However, an org.isc.named.plist is inside of server App at "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/LaunchDaemons" But it uses launchd to start named at /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/usr/sbin/named which is now burried inside of server app, instead of /usr/sbin/. And I see no com.apple.dnsextd.plist on Mavericks.
>
> And there is an interesting shell script named "10_dns_common.sh in "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/ServerSetup/CommonExtras" This script appears to create the Library/Server/named folder and to then copy (using ditto) the dns files from inside of the "Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders into it.
>
> To further confirm this, I tagged what I thought were the template files in the various "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders with a green tag. I then launched Server App for the first time, and a "/Library/Server/named folder" was created. And inside of it, were some files with green tags. Except for the rndc.key, which is newly created.
>
> After launching server, but still not yet configuring or turning on DNS, /System/Library/ now contains, "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.  But still no "org.isc.named.plist"
>
> Bind seems to be version 9.9.2-P2
>
> Even after turning DNS on, with its stock configuration, I still don't find a copy of""org.isc.named.plist" This is odd. I'm pretty sure it should be in there somewhere. But I just don't see it. Am I missing it, or is it hidden elsewhere?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/stuart%40toucancomputing.co.uk
>
> This email sent to [hidden email]



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Re: RFC Compliant DNS on Mavericks Server?

The Mac OS X Server Mailing List mailing list
I managed to install PowerDNS on Maverick and it handles 100s of domains
with great ease with mysql interface.
Some info on how to install it is here:
http://maxo.captainnet.net/maverick/index.html

On 9/27/14, 9:30 AM, For administrators of Mac OS X Server and related
technologies wrote:

> Ahhhh, reading through all of this I feel your pain :-)
>
> It appears that /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/Launch* are special folders that are valid locations for launchd to load launchd.plist files. I can't seem to find documentation on this anywhere, though... I'm not sure if you can just pop any old launchd.plist file in here and the system will load it (not recommended, obviously) or if it's just certain 'Apple' services that are authorised to live in here and load. I also can't find where/how launchd knows to look in this location for conf files. Is it simply compiled into 10.9 launchd or is it in a conf file somewhere?
>
> The lack of documentation on this new way of doing things (some stuff in ServerRoot, some stuff in /etc, some stuff in /Library/Server) is a big pain when it comes to tracking down problems. I advise those that feel it would be useful to submit some feedback to [hidden email]. When companies say things like "we cannot respond to every comment or request received, but we do read all feedback" it is certainly true for the above email account. Every time I've emailed feedback I've had a personal reply. I would keep it short and to the point and I'm sure you will be able to engage in some meaningful dialogue with the team that actually write this stuff.
>
> I dream of a day where documentation for all Server.app services is as good as /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private/etc/apache2/ReadMe.txt
>
> Do you have to use Server.app to manage bind or might it be easier/better to use something like macports to install an independent installation that can be managed via the CLI or with something like webmin etc? I imagine that modifying files that Server.app reads and writes is akin to the days of editing config files that Server Admin modified. I remember a workaround to prevent Server Admin overwriting manual changes was to lock the file in question (e.g. /etc/named.conf).
>
> Stuart
>  
>
> On 15 Jul 2014, at 02:54, Paul Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone been able to turn Mavericks with Server App into an RFC compliant DNS server, that accepts normal user created zone and config files? And by "normal," I mean the kinds of stuff in RFC 1033, RFC 1034, RFC 1035, and the BIND 9.9 Administrator Reference Manual (ARM), as well as described in the O'Reilly DNS and Bind book.
>>
>>    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1033.txt
>>    http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1034
>>    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt
>>    ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/cur/9.9/doc/arm/
>>
>> If one can't use normal user created zone and config files, how can this product really be standards compliant? So, I'm assuming there must be a way.
>>
>> Trying to move a client from a reliable old Apple OS to Mavericks with Server App, and one of the services is DNS. My prior moves involved simple DNS configurations that one could easily create in the GUI. This one is not. So, I'm hoping that someone else has figured out how to use existing zone and configuration files with Mavericks Server app's DNS. With all my attempts so far, touching Apple's GUI overwrites any working manual configuration, every time.
>>
>> Some of what I've done so far is as follows:
>>
>> In an effort to figure out what Mavericks does, I did a fresh install of Mavericks and Server app with all updates, then setup a quick and dirty DNS configuration with a single host in it.
>>
>> First, I note that there is a hidden folder named "private" INSIDE the server.app application at the path "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private" and that it has "etc" and "var" folders inside of it. I'm thinking these are probably template files, for the initial creation and probably aren't actually used otherwise. Might anyone know if that is a valid assumption?
>>
>> Second, I also note that there is a "named" folder at the path /Library/Server/named has a bunch of the files that would normally be in /private/var and /private/etc in a normal installation. (By normal, I mean the kind of thing one would read in the OReilly DNS & Bind book by Cricket Liu and Paul Albitz.) These appear to be the active files for a BIND DNS server. Would this be a valid assumption?
>>
>> Both of the above appear to be valid assumptions.
>>
>> /Library/Server/ does not exist prior to launching server. Prior to launching server, /private/etc lacks the normal "named.conf" and /private/var lacks the normal "named" folder with it's defaults.
>>
>> On 10.6, /System/Library/ contains:
>> "org.isc.named.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/named
>> "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.
>>
>> I don't see either of these in Mavericks prior to launching server. This is consistent with other sites having pointed out that with Mavericks, Apple no longer includes the BIND dns server as part of client. And "man named" failing to return a man page is also consistant.
>>
>> However, an org.isc.named.plist is inside of server App at "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/LaunchDaemons" But it uses launchd to start named at /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/usr/sbin/named which is now burried inside of server app, instead of /usr/sbin/. And I see no com.apple.dnsextd.plist on Mavericks.
>>
>> And there is an interesting shell script named "10_dns_common.sh in "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/ServerSetup/CommonExtras" This script appears to create the Library/Server/named folder and to then copy (using ditto) the dns files from inside of the "Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders into it.
>>
>> To further confirm this, I tagged what I thought were the template files in the various "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders with a green tag. I then launched Server App for the first time, and a "/Library/Server/named folder" was created. And inside of it, were some files with green tags. Except for the rndc.key, which is newly created.
>>
>> After launching server, but still not yet configuring or turning on DNS, /System/Library/ now contains, "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.  But still no "org.isc.named.plist"
>>
>> Bind seems to be version 9.9.2-P2
>>
>> Even after turning DNS on, with its stock configuration, I still don't find a copy of""org.isc.named.plist" This is odd. I'm pretty sure it should be in there somewhere. But I just don't see it. Am I missing it, or is it hidden elsewhere?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/stuart%40toucancomputing.co.uk
>>
>> This email sent to [hidden email]
>
>
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>
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Re: RFC Compliant DNS on Mavericks Server?

The Mac OS X Server Mailing List mailing list
PowerDNS sounds interesting.

Another approach, I would suggest is that you consider migrating the DNS service off the Mac OS X system and onto a two or more GNU/LINUX systems. If a GUI is required for editing, then WebMin offers a fairly comprehensive BIND web based interface.

Just another thought.

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On 28/09/2014, at 6:03 AM, OS X Server mail list <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I managed to install PowerDNS on Maverick and it handles 100s of domains with great ease with mysql interface.
> Some info on how to install it is here: http://maxo.captainnet.net/maverick/index.html
>
> On 9/27/14, 9:30 AM, For administrators of Mac OS X Server and related technologies wrote:
>> Ahhhh, reading through all of this I feel your pain :-)
>>
>> It appears that /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/Launch* are special folders that are valid locations for launchd to load launchd.plist files. I can't seem to find documentation on this anywhere, though... I'm not sure if you can just pop any old launchd.plist file in here and the system will load it (not recommended, obviously) or if it's just certain 'Apple' services that are authorised to live in here and load. I also can't find where/how launchd knows to look in this location for conf files. Is it simply compiled into 10.9 launchd or is it in a conf file somewhere?
>>
>> The lack of documentation on this new way of doing things (some stuff in ServerRoot, some stuff in /etc, some stuff in /Library/Server) is a big pain when it comes to tracking down problems. I advise those that feel it would be useful to submit some feedback to [hidden email]. When companies say things like "we cannot respond to every comment or request received, but we do read all feedback" it is certainly true for the above email account. Every time I've emailed feedback I've had a personal reply. I would keep it short and to the point and I'm sure you will be able to engage in some meaningful dialogue with the team that actually write this stuff.
>>
>> I dream of a day where documentation for all Server.app services is as good as /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private/etc/apache2/ReadMe.txt
>>
>> Do you have to use Server.app to manage bind or might it be easier/better to use something like macports to install an independent installation that can be managed via the CLI or with something like webmin etc? I imagine that modifying files that Server.app reads and writes is akin to the days of editing config files that Server Admin modified. I remember a workaround to prevent Server Admin overwriting manual changes was to lock the file in question (e.g. /etc/named.conf).
>>
>> Stuart
>>  
>> On 15 Jul 2014, at 02:54, Paul Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone been able to turn Mavericks with Server App into an RFC compliant DNS server, that accepts normal user created zone and config files? And by "normal," I mean the kinds of stuff in RFC 1033, RFC 1034, RFC 1035, and the BIND 9.9 Administrator Reference Manual (ARM), as well as described in the O'Reilly DNS and Bind book.
>>>
>>>   http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1033.txt
>>>   http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1034
>>>   http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt
>>>   ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/cur/9.9/doc/arm/
>>>
>>> If one can't use normal user created zone and config files, how can this product really be standards compliant? So, I'm assuming there must be a way.
>>>
>>> Trying to move a client from a reliable old Apple OS to Mavericks with Server App, and one of the services is DNS. My prior moves involved simple DNS configurations that one could easily create in the GUI. This one is not. So, I'm hoping that someone else has figured out how to use existing zone and configuration files with Mavericks Server app's DNS. With all my attempts so far, touching Apple's GUI overwrites any working manual configuration, every time.
>>>
>>> Some of what I've done so far is as follows:
>>>
>>> In an effort to figure out what Mavericks does, I did a fresh install of Mavericks and Server app with all updates, then setup a quick and dirty DNS configuration with a single host in it.
>>>
>>> First, I note that there is a hidden folder named "private" INSIDE the server.app application at the path "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/private" and that it has "etc" and "var" folders inside of it. I'm thinking these are probably template files, for the initial creation and probably aren't actually used otherwise. Might anyone know if that is a valid assumption?
>>>
>>> Second, I also note that there is a "named" folder at the path /Library/Server/named has a bunch of the files that would normally be in /private/var and /private/etc in a normal installation. (By normal, I mean the kind of thing one would read in the OReilly DNS & Bind book by Cricket Liu and Paul Albitz.) These appear to be the active files for a BIND DNS server. Would this be a valid assumption?
>>>
>>> Both of the above appear to be valid assumptions.
>>>
>>> /Library/Server/ does not exist prior to launching server. Prior to launching server, /private/etc lacks the normal "named.conf" and /private/var lacks the normal "named" folder with it's defaults.
>>>
>>> On 10.6, /System/Library/ contains:
>>> "org.isc.named.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/named
>>> "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.
>>>
>>> I don't see either of these in Mavericks prior to launching server. This is consistent with other sites having pointed out that with Mavericks, Apple no longer includes the BIND dns server as part of client. And "man named" failing to return a man page is also consistant.
>>>
>>> However, an org.isc.named.plist is inside of server App at "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/LaunchDaemons" But it uses launchd to start named at /Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/usr/sbin/named which is now burried inside of server app, instead of /usr/sbin/. And I see no com.apple.dnsextd.plist on Mavericks.
>>>
>>> And there is an interesting shell script named "10_dns_common.sh in "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/System/Library/ServerSetup/CommonExtras" This script appears to create the Library/Server/named folder and to then copy (using ditto) the dns files from inside of the "Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders into it.
>>>
>>> To further confirm this, I tagged what I thought were the template files in the various "/Applications/Server.app/Contents/ServerRoot/" subfolders with a green tag. I then launched Server App for the first time, and a "/Library/Server/named folder" was created. And inside of it, were some files with green tags. Except for the rndc.key, which is newly created.
>>>
>>> After launching server, but still not yet configuring or turning on DNS, /System/Library/ now contains, "com.apple.dnsextd.plist" which uses launchd to start /usr/sbin/dnsextd.  But still no "org.isc.named.plist"
>>>
>>> Bind seems to be version 9.9.2-P2
>>>
>>> Even after turning DNS on, with its stock configuration, I still don't find a copy of""org.isc.named.plist" This is odd. I'm pretty sure it should be in there somewhere. But I just don't see it. Am I missing it, or is it hidden elsewhere?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/stuart%40toucancomputing.co.uk
>>>
>>> This email sent to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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>>
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>
>
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