RAID drive recommendations?

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RAID drive recommendations?

Robert Smith-5
I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...

I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.

FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.

tks,
bob

-----
Bob Smith, President
Earworks Media
5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
Virginia Beach, VA 23462
757-490-9322



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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

dalek
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM, bob <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
      IMHO it depends on how you want it connected to the Xserve. For
instance, I am using a Synology NAS box, which can act like a time
machine drive.

> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
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> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Joel M. Benisch-2
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
I've had excellent experience with G-Technology products of all types.
They offer various types of RAID products, although I have not personally used one of their RAID products.

YMMV
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:06 PM, bob wrote:

> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/joelb%40paperfree.net
>
> This email sent to [hidden email]



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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Hellum, Timothy
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
FWIW,

I have purchased a number of LaCie 4Bigs over the past few years. I seven running right now attached to Xserves and MacMinis in our data centre. I have had to replace failed drives in two of them. That seems kind of high for replacement rate.  But that said, one was under warranty and I was nervous as I has to ship the dead drive to LaCie for replacement, which meant no redundancy (raid5) until return. The other one was out of warranty and I just plugged in a replacement drive myself into the chassis and it worked like a charm.

/timothy

__________________________________________
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The Globe and Mail - Canada's National Newspaper

> On Mar 20, 2014, at 9:16, "bob" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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>
> This email sent to [hidden email]


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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

gary middione
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
Bob


http://www.synology.com/en-us/


SYNOLOGY  using 4 in Dentist offices works great.


gary






On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:06 PM, bob <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/gjm%40roadrunner.com
>
> This email sent to [hidden email]



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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Craig Kabis
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
Use USB with the Xserve and then you can use the same box and switch
to Thunderbolt when you replace it (with a Mac mini?)

OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual - $779
8.0TB Multi-Interface Performance RAID
Mac / PC / Thunderbolt / USB 3.0 & 2.0
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/METB7DH8.0T/

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM, bob <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/craigkabis%40gmail.com
>
> This email sent to [hidden email]



--
~Craig Kabis
[hidden email]
703.340.7325


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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Andre LaBranche
In reply to this post by Joel M. Benisch-2

On Mar 19, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Joel M. Benisch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've had excellent experience with G-Technology products of all types.

Hi,

Generally agree with the above, with one caveat: my g-drive appears to completely ignore the OS's HDD spin-down setting; the one in the energy saver preference pane labeled "put hard drives to sleep when possible".

If your workflow demands that HDDs are always spun up, don't get a G-thing, or if you do, deploy countermeasures to keep your disks spun up.

-dre

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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Kevin Windham
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
Buy two 4TB external drives and use AppleRAID in Disk Utility. Or, don't mirror them at all, rotate nightly backups with Carbon Copy Cloner.

Many hardware RAID devices aren't that great IMO. If you get a more expensive box that uses ZFS as it's file system, that might be worth doing, but I don't think the cheaper mirrored dual bay drives are worth it IMO.

Besides, if you have a problem you could end up with the same problem on both drives. With the rotation of two drives at least you have two points of failure instead of one.

HTH,
Kevin

On Mar 19, 2014, at 3:06 PM, bob <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/kevo%40gatorgraphics.com
>
> This email sent to [hidden email]



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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

yea, it's me
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
http://www.freenas.org/
build your own. takes about 20-60 minutes... want small? build small.
want big? build big.
give it what ever hardware you like. connects to anything/everything. has ZFS.
you aren't locked into someone elses hardware, expandable, etc.
want to test it first? grab an old pc and run it off a thumb drive.
most of mine are running off of thumb drives anyway.
yes, you are backing up across network. so?

I have two name brand boxes (same brand that makes the actual drives)
that turned to a brick just after the warranty. their answer is just
go buy a new one. can't drop the drives into anything else to get data
off of and to send drives to data recovery. never do that again. I
tell people if they buy them, they are on their own and don't call me.
thanks,
george
____________________________________
Computers are like Black Labrador Retrievers.
Both hate the heat and will just shut down on a whim, but really like
liquid cooling.

You pile up enough tomorrows, and you'll find you've collected nothing
but a lot of empty yesterdays.
-Harold Hill


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM, bob <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>
> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>
> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>
> tks,
> bob
>
> -----
> Bob Smith, President
> Earworks Media
> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
> 757-490-9322
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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>
> This email sent to [hidden email]


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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Joel M. Benisch-2
In reply to this post by Andre LaBranche
I believe that this is a "feature" of Apple Firmware found only in/on drives that come pre-installed in Apple Products (or Apple supplied replacement drives).

I may be wrong?
Anyone know for sure?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel M. Benisch CPCU, President                                         973-992-6300 x303
PaperFree Corporation                                                   973-992-6666 FAX
909 Regal Boulevard                                                     [hidden email]
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On Mar 19, 2014, at 5:09 PM, Andre LaBranche wrote:

>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Joel M. Benisch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I've had excellent experience with G-Technology products of all types.
>
> Hi,
>
> Generally agree with the above, with one caveat: my g-drive appears to completely ignore the OS's HDD spin-down setting; the one in the energy saver preference pane labeled "put hard drives to sleep when possible".
>
> If your workflow demands that HDDs are always spun up, don't get a G-thing, or if you do, deploy countermeasures to keep your disks spun up.
>
> -dre


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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

David Ross-13
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5
On 3/19/14, 4:06 PM, bob wrote:
 > I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
 >
 > I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from
 > Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with
 > good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could
 > recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just
 > checking.
 >
 > FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.

You're talking RAID

RAID 1? 4TB after the mirror? Then you need at least 4 drives unless you
buy one with 2 4TB drives in it.

Look at buying a box that allows you to put SSDs in it and supports
FW800. And maybe switch your production storage to the new box and use
the old "live" as backup. One office I'm working with their XServe needs
to go away but since we filled it up before the replacements were ready
we put a 500GB SSD in an OWC FW800 bus powered case and moved a share
point with about 280GB to it. Much zippier than the XServe RAID that the
rest of the data is on.

I'll toss in the obligatory "A copy is not a backup" and move on.

And on my personal experience.

We're replacing a couple of XServes with attached 4TB Apple RAIDs with
two MacMini's each attached to one of these:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Areca/ARC8050T2/
We are going to put 6 1TB SSDs in each in a RAID 6 setup for a net of
4TB of storage. But you can use "spinning rust" for a cheaper setup.
And the Thunderbolt 1 version is about $400 or $500 less. And others
sell these.

In our testing this setup is about 4 to 10 times faster than our XServes
connected to XServe RAIDS with FC.

We clone from one to the other each night then spin the "backup" copy to
tape. Delta's only to make the run times possible.

Good Luck in your choices.

David

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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Joacim Melin-4
In reply to this post by Joel M. Benisch-2
I got three G-Technology Firewire 800 enclosures about two years ago and within six months the first one failed. The enclosures themselves are fine but the drives G-Technology used back then (WD Drives I think) are utter crap. As of writing this I have replaced the drives in all three enclosures.

YMMV but I would look in a different direction when buying external drives. G-Technology stuff looks cool but really doesn't deliver over time.

On 19 Mar 2014, at 21:22, Joel M. Benisch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've had excellent experience with G-Technology products of all types.
> They offer various types of RAID products, although I have not personally used one of their RAID products.
>
> YMMV
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joel M. Benisch CPCU, President                                         973-992-6300 x303
> PaperFree Corporation                                                   973-992-6666 FAX
> 909 Regal Boulevard                                                     [hidden email]
> Livingston, NJ 07039-8249           WE CREATE PRODUCTS WE WOULD WANT TO USE!
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:06 PM, bob wrote:
>
>> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>>
>> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>>
>> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>>
>> tks,
>> bob
>>
>> -----
>> Bob Smith, President
>> Earworks Media
>> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
>> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
>> 757-490-9322
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/joelb%40paperfree.net
>>
>> This email sent to [hidden email]
>
>
>
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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Eric Klinger
Check out Macgurus ... macgurus.com.

Their website looks like it just crawled out of the 90's but having purchased products from them in the past they are extremely friendly, fair priced (very small company) and quite serious about their storage!!



> On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Joacim Melin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I got three G-Technology Firewire 800 enclosures about two years ago and within six months the first one failed. The enclosures themselves are fine but the drives G-Technology used back then (WD Drives I think) are utter crap. As of writing this I have replaced the drives in all three enclosures.
>
> YMMV but I would look in a different direction when buying external drives. G-Technology stuff looks cool but really doesn't deliver over time.
>
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 21:22, Joel M. Benisch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I've had excellent experience with G-Technology products of all types.
>> They offer various types of RAID products, although I have not personally used one of their RAID products.
>>
>> YMMV
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Joel M. Benisch CPCU, President                                         973-992-6300 x303
>> PaperFree Corporation                                                   973-992-6666 FAX
>> 909 Regal Boulevard                                                     [hidden email]
>> Livingston, NJ 07039-8249           WE CREATE PRODUCTS WE WOULD WANT TO USE!
>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:06 PM, bob wrote:
>>>
>>> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
>>>
>>> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
>>>
>>> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
>>>
>>> tks,
>>> bob
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Bob Smith, President
>>> Earworks Media
>>> 5245 Cleveland St., Suite 210
>>> Virginia Beach, VA 23462
>>> 757-490-9322
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Macos-x-server mailing list      ([hidden email])
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/macos-x-server/joelb%40paperfree.net
>>>
>>> This email sent to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

David Ross-13
I had forgot about them. Big player back in the days of SCSI.

This looks like something that might fit the OP's needs.

http://www.macgurus.com/store/Item/BurlyMultiDriveFPMF

On 3/20/14, 2:52 AM, Eric Klinger wrote:> Check out Macgurus ...
macgurus.com.
 >
 > Their website looks like it just crawled out of the 90's but having
purchased products from them in the past they are extremely friendly,
fair priced (very small company) and quite serious about their storage!!
 >
 >
 >
 >> On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Joacim Melin <[hidden email]>
wrote:
 >>
 >> I got three G-Technology Firewire 800 enclosures about two years ago
and within six months the first one failed. The enclosures themselves
are fine but the drives G-Technology used back then (WD Drives I think)
are utter crap. As of writing this I have replaced the drives in all
three enclosures.
 >>
 >> YMMV but I would look in a different direction when buying external
drives. G-Technology stuff looks cool but really doesn't deliver over time.
 >>
 >>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 21:22, Joel M. Benisch <[hidden email]> wrote:
 >>>
 >>> I've had excellent experience with G-Technology products of all types.
 >>> They offer various types of RAID products, although I have not
personally used one of their RAID products.
 >>>
 >>> YMMV
 >>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >>> Joel M. Benisch CPCU, President
      973-992-6300 x303
 >>> PaperFree Corporation
      973-992-6666 FAX
 >>> 909 Regal Boulevard
      [hidden email]
 >>> Livingston, NJ 07039-8249           WE CREATE PRODUCTS WE WOULD
WANT TO USE!
 >>>
 >>>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:06 PM, bob wrote:
 >>>>
 >>>> I feel like I'm speaking in a dark, cavern-like room...
 >>>>
 >>>> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought
from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with
good success. Are there any raid hard drive products anyone could
recommend besides OWC products. Possibly more reliable?  Just checking.
 >>>>
 >>>> FYI, running Xserve, 10.6.8. Works fine, no reason to replace it.
 >>>>
 >>>> tks,
 >>>> bob
 >>>>


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Re: RAID drive recommendations?

Danny Grizzle
In reply to this post by Robert Smith-5

> I need a new 4TB mirrored RAID for backup purposes. I've bought from Other World Computing (also know as Macsales) for many years with good success.

I am done with LaCie and almost done with OWC thanks to their Qx2 4-bay RAID, which I have purchased something like 5-6 units and been dealt a consistently miserable experience both with the product and with support.

Although Newer Technology appears to be a house brand of OWC, I have a bit better attitude about the Guardian MAXimus mirrored raids. I've bought maybe a dozen, and only two problems over the years, one definitely not the drive's fault.

Despite dedicated electrical systems and grounding, our main office building is subject to violent electrical storms. The building is protected by a full on professionally installed lightning rod system. I will never know how it happened, but a major lightning strike to the facility went through my machine rack.* Amazing, but the only fatality was a Guardian MAXimus. The bolt of lightning left an electrical arc mark on the black metal housing that looked like a tack weld. I'm sure there is a corresponding arc mark somewhere inside the APC 19" floor rack.

This highlights my new reality: don't call anything with spinning disks a backup device. Period.

Further, never deceive yourself that fully mirrored RAIDs are a backup device. My second Guardian MAXimus fatality highlights the problem: one drive had a partial mechanical failure and the data corruption propagated to the redundant mirror mechanism. Only by the most extreme data recovery efforts did we dodge the bullet by the narrowest margin. And that required 2 weeks of intensive scavenging efforts because these drives have huge, unwieldy capacity.

This second Guardian MAXimus episode highlights that mirrored RAIDs may have unknown failure modes that result in unanticipated data loss.

My advice for online redundancy, short of enterprise class RAIDs: Drobo 5D or Drobo 5N, fully populated with enterprise class mechanisms and set to dual disk redundancy. Unlike the other prosumer HDs and RAIDs, you can remote administer and monitor Drobo health via Drobo Dashboard.

We've bought about half a dozen Drobos now considered legacy models, plus about 3 of the latest generation. Current model Drobos are a different animal from a performance perspective. Some admins badmouth Drobo's proprietary system architecture, but I could care less. I barely have the staff to do data recovery on a single mechanism drive like a mirrored volume from a Guardian MAXimus. Can't see any prospect for me or my people to mechanic any sophisticated RAID.

For actual backups, considering cloud services impractical for muti-terabyte replication, at least in my circumstance of rural locations and constrained bandwidth, my solution is LTO-6. I bought two HP autoloaders yesterday, $6,500 each. Not cheap, but neither is losing data.

My attitude: this is not a hobby. Redundancies are not backups. The best laid plans fail. Unless you can afford to lose data, don't think only in terms of spinning disk redundancies. Think in terms of backup redundancies. Everyone except the clueless knows offsite backups are mandatory.

Backup systems have to work in practice, all theory aside. I have never seen a manually managed backup system that did not fail.

A perfectly conceived and executed backup strategy is nothing with an equally proven and verified restore capability.

It is absolutely critical to perform a fully verified restore to a sandbox server at least quarterly. Two reasons: it proves your backup systems actually work, not just appear to be working. Second - practice data restores keep your IT skills sharpened. If and when an actual data failure occurs, and it will, you are ready to get the business back on its feet fast as possible.

There is something to be said for tape still, given LTO's 15-30 year backup tape life expectancy and the fact that tapes can be stored not only offline but truly off the grid.

Danny Grizzle
IT Director
Satterwhite Log Homes
Texas - Georgia - Utah

* Lightning Strike Damage: How a Newer Technology Guardian MAXimus drive took a lightning hit inside an Fully metal enclosed APC 19" server rack is a mystery. We reviewed everything in our design and implementation and were left scratching our heads. My theory, and somebody smarter than me may debunk this, is that the problem may be related to the facility's three separate electrical ground rods earthing all systems within fairly close proximity. My server room has dedicated isolated power. The building has power and separate grounding. Finally, the lightning rod system which protects the building has separate grounding. I know for a fact the building took a direct hit during a violent electrical thunder storm, and that my equipment failed in the same instant. What I suspect is the lightning rod system worked perfectly, delivering the full electrical charge to ground only a few feet away from the building and the computer electrical grounding rods. I'm thinking this created an enormous differential in electrical potential, and that essentially the damage sustained by the Guardian MAXimus drive came from the grounding system, which is backwards of the way you would think given grounding is usually considered safe.




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